Comments on: NIN and Radiohead Stunts Are Not a New Model. Enough Already http://www.cloudid.com/2008/05/09/nin-and-radiohead-stunts-are-not-a-new-model-enough-already/ David Usher's blog on art, technology and the communication revolution Wed, 27 Aug 2008 23:54:03 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: Reznor: It’s all free — accept it » mathewingram.com/work | http://www.cloudid.com/2008/05/09/nin-and-radiohead-stunts-are-not-a-new-model-enough-already/#comment-1547 Reznor: It’s all free — accept it » mathewingram.com/work | Sun, 08 Jun 2008 22:20:59 +0000 http://www.cloudid.com/?p=29#comment-1547 [...] it’s easy for Trent and Radiohead and other multimillionaire musicians to pull what he called “stunts” like that, but it’s not necessarily a new business model for the vast majority of artists, and I think [...] [...] it’s easy for Trent and Radiohead and other multimillionaire musicians to pull what he called “stunts” like that, but it’s not necessarily a new business model for the vast majority of artists, and I think [...]

]]> By: drew http://www.cloudid.com/2008/05/09/nin-and-radiohead-stunts-are-not-a-new-model-enough-already/#comment-871 drew Wed, 21 May 2008 12:10:21 +0000 http://www.cloudid.com/?p=29#comment-871 okay, ill have to take some more infos and post back the "miracle receipe", but i know a band (Your favorite enemies) that sold over 130 000 cds without any label behind them, they refused to sign with big labels as they got many offers but were always stuck with clauses they ddnt wanted. So, independently, they bring their music to the public and traveled over the world. They just finished their first music video and are #1 on musique plus countdown right now. They are leaving for Japan in few days opening for Simple plan. This have not much to do with NIN or Radiohead but, its an admirable crowned effort and might leads to a better future for indie bands. Of course someone must have invest in them at some point, but it wasnt a big label. okay, ill have to take some more infos and post back the “miracle receipe”, but i know a band (Your favorite enemies) that sold over 130 000 cds without any label behind them, they refused to sign with big labels as they got many offers but were always stuck with clauses they ddnt wanted. So, independently, they bring their music to the public and traveled over the world. They just finished their first music video and are #1 on musique plus countdown right now. They are leaving for Japan in few days opening for Simple plan.

This have not much to do with NIN or Radiohead but, its an admirable crowned effort and might leads to a better future for indie bands. Of course someone must have invest in them at some point, but it wasnt a big label.

]]> By: Ibarr http://www.cloudid.com/2008/05/09/nin-and-radiohead-stunts-are-not-a-new-model-enough-already/#comment-568 Ibarr Wed, 14 May 2008 13:58:27 +0000 http://www.cloudid.com/?p=29#comment-568 While established artists - such as NIN and Radiohead - can live comfortably while experimenting in today's new busines model, indie artists need to educate themselves more on the business of music and most importantly how to market themselves/use the tools available at their disposal. It's unfortunate that talent, a good work ethic and quality product doesn't always equate to success. Today's artists need to be marketers in addition to musicians. So my question is, what resources are their to educate these new artists on the tools at their disposal? While established artists - such as NIN and Radiohead - can live comfortably while experimenting in today’s new busines model, indie artists need to educate themselves more on the business of music and most importantly how to market themselves/use the tools available at their disposal. It’s unfortunate that talent, a good work ethic and quality product doesn’t always equate to success. Today’s artists need to be marketers in addition to musicians. So my question is, what resources are their to educate these new artists on the tools at their disposal?

]]> By: Dabetswe Natasha http://www.cloudid.com/2008/05/09/nin-and-radiohead-stunts-are-not-a-new-model-enough-already/#comment-440 Dabetswe Natasha Sun, 11 May 2008 19:16:10 +0000 http://www.cloudid.com/?p=29#comment-440 This is rather interesting, since I'm also fan of a local indie band (but of course, you're still my number one favorite) that's still in the start up stage (though they've been playing for 6 years at least, if not more). What I like about this band is not just their music, but also their approach to promoting it. They took the guerila street show approach, by playing on the streets for free (of course, with run in with cops since they can't afford the permit-something like hundreds of dollars per month) 3 days out of the week until winter hits, and selling their CDs through these street shows (they were able to sell 10,000 CDs within a couple of years...not sure how that fall in terms of success in the music world, but that seems pretty good) and of course, they get connected to promoters and get to play at private shows and some bars through that. They also play at local live show scenes at bars, but I think they make more money on the streets than at the bar shows. They use MySpace quite well and have built up a small but faithful fan base. Anyway, to cut it short, I think there are several ways small new indie artists can promote themselves, but they really have to be creative and use their fans to help them promote too. It's really all about networking. I've got the lead singer a stint with a photography project held by the city, which gave him much exposure (many people stopped by to see him perform because they saw his picture on the huge posters on the main downtown street through this project). I think in the end, it's still about human networking, person to person connections that help out with small artists trying to start up. Internet is great to get a wider audience and fan base, but to get a loyal dedicated group that will always be there, it's the live shows, the interactions and relationships that are built which really make a difference. It just take a few people who truly believe in the artists, and if they're lucky, they might eventually meet someone with some kind of connection to something. In the meantime, I think the small group of dedicated fans for the new artists wouldn't really care if it's for free or they have to pay for the music or shows, because it they are in it because they believe and so whether they have to pay or not won't make a difference. Sometimes when you pay for something, you value it more too. My two cents, anyway. This is rather interesting, since I’m also fan of a local indie band (but of course, you’re still my number one favorite) that’s still in the start up stage (though they’ve been playing for 6 years at least, if not more). What I like about this band is not just their music, but also their approach to promoting it. They took the guerila street show approach, by playing on the streets for free (of course, with run in with cops since they can’t afford the permit-something like hundreds of dollars per month) 3 days out of the week until winter hits, and selling their CDs through these street shows (they were able to sell 10,000 CDs within a couple of years…not sure how that fall in terms of success in the music world, but that seems pretty good) and of course, they get connected to promoters and get to play at private shows and some bars through that. They also play at local live show scenes at bars, but I think they make more money on the streets than at the bar shows. They use MySpace quite well and have built up a small but faithful fan base.

Anyway, to cut it short, I think there are several ways small new indie artists can promote themselves, but they really have to be creative and use their fans to help them promote too. It’s really all about networking. I’ve got the lead singer a stint with a photography project held by the city, which gave him much exposure (many people stopped by to see him perform because they saw his picture on the huge posters on the main downtown street through this project).

I think in the end, it’s still about human networking, person to person connections that help out with small artists trying to start up. Internet is great to get a wider audience and fan base, but to get a loyal dedicated group that will always be there, it’s the live shows, the interactions and relationships that are built which really make a difference. It just take a few people who truly believe in the artists, and if they’re lucky, they might eventually meet someone with some kind of connection to something. In the meantime, I think the small group of dedicated fans for the new artists wouldn’t really care if it’s for free or they have to pay for the music or shows, because it they are in it because they believe and so whether they have to pay or not won’t make a difference. Sometimes when you pay for something, you value it more too. My two cents, anyway.

]]> By: Jonathan http://www.cloudid.com/2008/05/09/nin-and-radiohead-stunts-are-not-a-new-model-enough-already/#comment-436 Jonathan Sun, 11 May 2008 16:10:42 +0000 http://www.cloudid.com/?p=29#comment-436 David, I think your right. But they challenge the way people see music and that... i like! :) It's not an easy path, beign an artist. It means alot of PR and sweet talk. It's easy to get lost in it... but there's a place for people who wanna stay true. Myspace, facebook and oh so many other sites can help you build your fan base... but H(*)&$@#yS@*&#$t this takes a lifetime. I personaly did it alot... but, I kind of stopped or slowed down a bit 'cause it was too time comsuming and I realized I wasn't created that much... I was a lot more talking about it. :S Weird... Anyways, interesting blog. Really. Keep it real :) J. http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=566455118 David,
I think your right. But they challenge the way people see music and that… i like! :)

It’s not an easy path, beign an artist. It means alot of PR and sweet talk. It’s easy to get lost in it… but there’s a place for people who wanna stay true. Myspace, facebook and oh so many other sites can help you build your fan base… but H(*)&$@#yS@*&#$t this takes a lifetime.

I personaly did it alot… but, I kind of stopped or slowed down a bit ’cause it was too time comsuming and I realized I wasn’t created that much… I was a lot more talking about it. :S Weird…

Anyways, interesting blog. Really.
Keep it real :)
J.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=566455118

]]> By: David Usher http://www.cloudid.com/2008/05/09/nin-and-radiohead-stunts-are-not-a-new-model-enough-already/#comment-430 David Usher Sun, 11 May 2008 12:10:17 +0000 http://www.cloudid.com/?p=29#comment-430 and of course i do like what radiohead and nin are doing. i support all artist that are messing around with the traditional structure. i just like calling them rich kids, it makes me smile:) my point really is that there is a gap in development that needs to be sorted. the incubation stage. from good to great. from van to bus. that take time, money and a model. and of course i do like what radiohead and nin are doing. i support all artist that are messing around with the traditional structure. i just like calling them rich kids, it makes me smile:)
my point really is that there is a gap in development that needs to be sorted. the incubation stage. from good to great. from van to bus. that take time, money and a model.

]]> By: Lalou http://www.cloudid.com/2008/05/09/nin-and-radiohead-stunts-are-not-a-new-model-enough-already/#comment-428 Lalou Sun, 11 May 2008 11:53:19 +0000 http://www.cloudid.com/?p=29#comment-428 Music's world is changed and will never be the way it was...new musicians generation have to look ahead and to find other promotion tools. Radiohead, NIN bring back old problems when they promote their music like that...come on! They don't know solidarity? Yes you're right...I'm a dreamer. Music’s world is changed and will never be the way it was…new musicians generation have to look ahead and to find other promotion tools.
Radiohead, NIN bring back old problems when they promote their music like that…come on! They don’t know solidarity?
Yes you’re right…I’m a dreamer.

]]> By: Faith http://www.cloudid.com/2008/05/09/nin-and-radiohead-stunts-are-not-a-new-model-enough-already/#comment-406 Faith Sat, 10 May 2008 02:43:35 +0000 http://www.cloudid.com/?p=29#comment-406 all upcoming musicians should follow whatever works for them. really risky, trust me. to me there are no specific models available for new artists to follow, terrifying for these new artists however, they should do a lot of experimentation. but i do suggest that these new artist to perform live more often so that they would establish themselves first. make sure that the crowd that goes to watch musicians play live gets to know them first. once these musicians achieve their "identity" it will be safer to experiment on a lot of things if you have a strong foundation to hold on to. nothing could ever compare to live music. on a side note... i apologize for the double post. my browser is having a problem. all upcoming musicians should follow whatever works for them. really risky, trust me. to me there are no specific models available for new artists to follow, terrifying for these new artists however, they should do a lot of experimentation.

but i do suggest that these new artist to perform live more often so that they would establish themselves first. make sure that the crowd that goes to watch musicians play live gets to know them first. once these musicians achieve their “identity” it will be safer to experiment on a lot of things if you have a strong foundation to hold on to.

nothing could ever compare to live music.

on a side note… i apologize for the double post. my browser is having a problem.

]]> By: Faith http://www.cloudid.com/2008/05/09/nin-and-radiohead-stunts-are-not-a-new-model-enough-already/#comment-405 Faith Sat, 10 May 2008 02:27:38 +0000 http://www.cloudid.com/?p=29#comment-405 all upcoming musicians should follow whatever works for them. really risky, trust me. to me there would be no specific models available for new artists to follow, terrifying for these new artists however, they should do a lot of experimentation. all upcoming musicians should follow whatever works for them. really risky, trust me. to me there would be no specific models available for new artists to follow, terrifying for these new artists however, they should do a lot of experimentation.

]]> By: yvette http://www.cloudid.com/2008/05/09/nin-and-radiohead-stunts-are-not-a-new-model-enough-already/#comment-404 yvette Fri, 09 May 2008 18:07:58 +0000 http://www.cloudid.com/?p=29#comment-404 You make some good points David, however I'll have to disagree with the rich kid versus poor kid. Let's face it. There is no more model. It's everyone for themselves when it comes to promoting music, but it doesn't have to be that way. Unfortunately, musicians will have to be more computer savvy and learn crative ways to sell their music, especially when record labels don't support an artist. Radiohead is experimenting and at least they are being creative. Yes, they have that freedom and maybe they are setting a precedent that could be considered somewhat irresponsible in that some newer artists won't be able to follow suit. I do know a few up and coming artists who have their one song remixed by 18 different artists and have put it on one big album. It is doing great in the U.K. They are heading to the U.K for a tour and are so pleased with how things are going! :-) You even shared the stage with them at one time. Go V.I.C. !!! I do agree that the business needs to spend more time "replanting" and taking care of newer artists, but Radiohead shouldn't be responsible for other musicians technical shortcomings. This is the part where artists need to band together promoting each other because the other "model" may not be there one day. Saskatoon musicians have a very good model for supporting each other and promoting each other's work. They do this via websites and social networks like Myspace. They may not be "rolling in the dough" but they are able to function as a unit. Musicians have to wear many hats and this is just one more they will have to learn in order to survive a brutal business. :-)Still love you! X You make some good points David, however I’ll have to disagree with the rich kid versus poor kid. Let’s face it. There is no more model. It’s everyone for themselves when it comes to promoting music, but it doesn’t have to be that way. Unfortunately, musicians will have to be more computer savvy and learn crative ways to sell their music, especially when record labels don’t support an artist. Radiohead is experimenting and at least they are being creative. Yes, they have that freedom and maybe they are setting a precedent that could be considered somewhat irresponsible in that some newer artists won’t be able to follow suit. I do know a few up and coming artists who have their one song remixed by 18 different artists and have put it on one big album. It is doing great in the U.K. They are heading to the U.K for a tour and are so pleased with how things are going! :-) You even shared the stage with them at one time. Go V.I.C. !!!

I do agree that the business needs to spend more time “replanting” and taking care of newer artists, but Radiohead shouldn’t be responsible for other musicians technical shortcomings. This is the part where artists need to band together promoting each other because the other “model” may not be there one day. Saskatoon musicians have a very good model for supporting each other and promoting each other’s work. They do this via websites and social networks like Myspace. They may not be “rolling in the dough” but they are able to function as a unit. Musicians have to wear many hats and this is just one more they will have to learn in order to survive a brutal business.
:-)Still love you! X

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