I think most artists would never compare themselves to anyone else… it’s not the best way to get the message out there.

Imagine The Who advertising a gig as, “if you liked Led Zeppelin…” ouch!

It’s one thing if a reviewer does the comparison (that’s inevitable), but when the artist does it, it gives of the vibe that they are not all that original.

That was point #1.

But here’s point #2 - if this person was ethical they would have contacted you (not a hard thing to do) to seek your approval to use your name. It’s not a question of legality… it’s a question of ethics and morals.

My two cents.

i agree mitch, but i do like the “balls” of it:)
whats most interesting is how specifically you can target facebook ads. you can really narrow your demo to something really specific.

As a consumer and music lover I always enjoy when a utility (such as Last.fm)”suggests” new artists. Several times now I’ve found an artist I’d never heard of thanks to a nudge like “if you like —– you might like —-”.

It’s one of the things I love about the internet. I don’t have to rely on a radio station which plays mostly well known artists to find new things.

While I see the creepy factor of marketing with keywords such as “David Usher” and I understand Mitch’s feelings about ethics in a case like this, I really can’t see the harm here. It doesn’t take away from the art or the brand of David Usher and obviously the approach works… it’s gotten you to sit up and notice, post a copy of the ad in your blog and you (and some of your fans) will likely check him out because of it. This approach won’t diminish your own brand or fan base.

I’ve noticed on Daniel’s website it states the following:

‘For fans of The Goo Goo Dolls, Michelle Branch, Daniel Powter, Coldplay, James Blunt, Vanessa Carlton, etc. ‘

I’m surprised David Usher is not mentioned there as well. I know when I purchase songs on iTunes there is always a box at the bottom that states: ‘other artists you may like’ and it changes drastically depending on the song I buy.

In a roundabout way, fans of Daniel may now become fans of the other artists he mentions on his website. David, do you think some fans of Daniel might now check out your music as a result of his ads?

I run a few sites aimed at doctors, nurses, etc., and we are all over the cross-promotion with our content. This works well because we offer similar types of content across the sites but on different topics.

I think it’s a bit trickier when it comes to music, movies, etc, because every person has a different ear, different taste. I’ve had a few experiences with “if you like this, you might like this…” and I haven’t understood the connection at all. It sounds to me like a great way to help build an audience, but these artists should be careful who they compare themselves to, or they may alienate people who don’t see any sort of similarity.

I’m not an artist but i would think this kind of marketing campaign would be pretty flattering. I have heard of Daniel linked to David’s music on lastfm as well as facebook and he has identified himself as a fan. It certainly made me check out his music to know that he shared my musical tastes.

The thing I find more interesting is how facebook is making money off of the networks being formed there. Even though David makes a point never to spam his fans with advertising, will Facebook start doing it for him?!

Wow I never expected this. Getting reactions from people like Mitch Joel and David Usher !

I’ve read the comments here and would like to start off by making you all aware of the following:

1. David Usher has been one of the greatest influences on my music. When I was 16, his band Moist was the reason for me picking up a guitar and learning how to play. I’ve been a fan of his ever since, especially his lyrics and the way he has embraces the internet and carries out his career. To be even be mentioned here on cloudid.com is a huge honour for me !

2. Mitch, I love your podcasts and have tremendous respect for your opinions and leadership. I discovered your podcast and Joseph Jaffe’s this summer and have been listening passionately on and off when time permits, and as someone currently doing a masters in marketing, they are a precious form of education that is not taught in school. However I’m going to have to disagree with you. Never in a million years did the idea that this ad could be perceived as unethical come to mind when I made it.

Here was my mindset when conjuring up this evil little scheme :

I have an idea of what kind of music David Usher’s fans like, because I am one of them and interact with others. I also know that my music is a perfect fit for many of them. This is not only advertising for my music, it’s also advertising for David Usher (for which I am picking up the tab). If someone where to make an ad on facebook stating “Love Daniel Ghattas?” I would be so flattered that I would probably buy that person an ice cream cone.

I could not care less if people think I’m original or not. My goal is not to reinvent the musical wheel, it’s to make music that I enjoy and find people who feel the same about it. If you listen to my songs, you’ll see I don’t sound like David Usher. My music has a huge pop influence, lyrically and musically. David’s is more mature and cerebral and dare I say more rock n’roll in its attitude. He’s David, no one could ever sound like him. But the add does say “Love David Usher?” not “Want music that sounds like David Usher?”.

This is no different than an opening act playing before a more popular headliner and selling their CD’s and merchandise to the headliner’s audience. As David stated, I am tapping into his fan base and marketing my music. How can that negatively affect his business ? Will David Usher fans spend less money on his shows, music and merchandise because they bought my CD ? I highly doubt it. He had to go through the same hurdles when he was starting out, his band tapped into other bands’ fan bases.

In the interest of this discussion and to answer David’s question about how it’s working out for me, here are some figures:
For the past 5 days I have been spending $5 a day with an average click through rate of 0.3 % and have made about 15 new fans on my facebook page.
Does this qualify as a good ROI on my campaign ? Will those fans actually buy my album ? I’m not sure, because it hasn’t led to revenue yet (my CD will be available on August 20th). This is more about priming the pump, getting people to download my free single in hopes that they’ll listen to it over the next month, it will get stuck in their head and they’ll want to buy the album. It’s simply an experiment.

To me this is a simple case of cross-marketing as Jamie Stanford pointed out. Nothing more, nothing less

Hey Daniel

How did you get your ad to me?

While I am a facebook fan of David usher’s facebook page, he is not listed as one of my musicians on my page (sorry dave, I set it up years ago and haven’t changed it for a long time).

I thought you had to have the artist listed. So, how did you get your add to me?

PS, feel free to ignore this post, but I wrote this song yesterday and I’m pretty excited about it, so I wanted to post it.

This has nothing to do with the previous post so feel free to ignore it, but i’m posting the link anyway

Warning! Below is blatant self promotion! Proceed at your own risk!
——————————————————
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZOykW2zpRU
—————————————————–

I selected the following criteria for my facebook ad : people living in Canada who have the keyword “David Usher” listed in their favorite music.

I don’t mind recommendations or comparisons of artists. I know it is not cool to “compare” artists but you know what - I would rather take a recommendation from someone, explore, and see for myself versus flipping around MySpace looking for music.

In the end it is the music that matters and I can determine what I like myself.

2:0 in favor of David
To Daniel:
It’s fun, it’s rising and will calm, you’ll get some fans maybe, and probably not-fans, but I wonder why you didn’t start with it - “making all aware of the following”?? Maybe You just have a strange innocent logic, but imagine someone start to produce icecream or sweets under your name while you suspect nothing. Isn’t it the same? Of course not, but seems like that. You can’t make twice the first impression, that’s the point
It’s the age of free, the glorious free of charge age!

Many people here have made great and insightful comments.

Svetlana, I get your idea although I’m not sure your comparision to someone making sweets under my name and selling them applies to this situation, or is even fair. From what I understand David Usher doesn’t seem to mind this; or else he would have asked me to stop the ad, which I would have gladly done out of respect and decency.

Let’s step away from an elitist and exclusive musical way of thinking, trapped in rules and what you should or shouldn’t do. Insinuating that an artist who compares himself to other artists has no morals or ethics, or has an “innocent logic” is easy to do when you’re not the artist trying to get your music out there with very limited ressources.

Let’s ponder the following:

When I’m speaking to someone who doesn’t know about my music, I describe my style as “pop/rock kind of like Michelle Branch, Goo Goo Dolls, Coldplay. etc.” Simply saying “pop/rock” doesn’t say much on its own, but naming other artists whose music is similar can give the person a better idea.

Does this mean I should call these artists managers (who I’m sure have bigger things to worry about) and ask them for permission to use their name in promoting myself ? Is this a realistic way of functioning for every new artist out there ?

When David Usher or any other established artist started out, they used other artists’ fan-bases to create their own and earn money. How are the rules different for a new artist such as myself ? Not to mention that I do not have the ressources these artists have such as a record label, manager, publicist, booking agent, staff, funding, etc.

I’m doing this entirely on my own, with the best tools at my disposal : my brain, the internet and a lot of hard work and patience.

Ethics have nothing to do with this. If this were Toyota or Apple or any other brand, I would have never used their brand name without permission. However this is the music industry, an industry with a different way of functioning, built on cross-marketing in which it is not only considered okay but is expected that new unknown artists are compared to popular ones.

Think about your favourite artist and how they’ve used other artists to build their fan-base and career. Remember, everyone starts out as unknown.

Is he aware how high the expectations will be, I’m mean seriously I very much doubt that anyone could fill the David Usher shoes with flying coulours or even get close. He,s just killing is own career unless he’s willing to put in a 15 to 20 hours days work. Gets me wondering about his ego, probably big enough to trip him. If you’re going to advertise using someone’s name like that you’d better be Freaking awesome. Well I guess I should get some coffee and start this research… Love Bren. xxx

The kid sounds like Jamie Walters, where is Jamie anyway!?

Daniel seems pretty hard working to me. He seems to be following David’s lead by using many social networking sites and sharing fresh content to build a fanbase. And judging from the conversation here, he is getting people talking about him!

As for aiming high… is there really any other way?

using the same path won’t make him the!

Brenda, I understand that as a fan of David Usher you may feel defensive, but I think you may have misunderstood me. I’m not comparing myself to David Usher. All I’m saying is “if you like David Usher’s music, you might like mine.” Have you ever bought something on Amazon.com, iTunes or any other online store and seen the “you may also like books/music from these authors/artists” message ? It’s the same principle. There’s no malicious or “ego tripping” intention behind my ad, I promise

Brenda Lynn sounds like a 14 year old girl in puberty defending her favorite singer. There’s some growing up to do…go do that research hunny

oh and your ad does make sense, Daniel. Your music is very pleasant

Yeah, Branda’s a real bitch!

Thank you Daniel for taking the time to explain this to me; I hadn’t seen things in that manner and of course I’m always first to admit when I’m wrong and I often tend to be really bold and to quick to react. Again thank you, I won’t forget your kindness. Brenda

I think thats pretty cool.
Not only about his genious marketing idea,
but that you (David Usher) is okay with that!
I think it’s good, that you want to promote
people to listen to music, somewhat like yours.
And you’re not all devensive when it comes to
other artists wanting the same fans as you!
Great Going!

P.S.
LOVE your music!

Hey Rafe:

Back in my bar hopping days, I always stayed for the last song so I kind of listen to one song before I head to sleep. I listened to your song tonight. I really enjoyed it, and your eye contact with the camera was very good. I’ll send my daughters in for a listen and a look and they will likely fall in love with you. I would love to hear more sometime.

hey daniel
thanks for taking part in the chat. i know that its really hard for new artists to get attention in todays music climate. its always been hard and we pretty much do whatever it takes. ive did some crazy poster sticker things with moist on the way up, lots of them questionable so i know thats just part of the game. in the end its probably better if you stop tagging me in your ads. the bottom line is you can still target an artists fans without using the artists name in your ad. im my music life im really specific about how i use my name and brand, and almost all artist feel the same way. as you develop your career you often need this artists to open for, to help develop your crowd. most of them wont find it to be an interesting topic for their social media blog.
its has really sparked some good conversation!

and everyone, i love the passion but lets try to keep it civil, ok.

Daniel,

It concerns me that you’re doing a Masters in Marketing and don’t see how this is unethical.

You said:

“This is not only advertising for my music, it’s also advertising for David Usher (for which I am picking up the tab).”

Did you get his permission to do advertising for him? What makes you think he would want his brand advertised next to yours? Are you saying that both brands are of equal value, or do you derive more benefit from using David’s brand than he does from yours? Are you giving David a portion of all sales derived from this ad because you used his brand for your own personal gain?

Remember, it’s not like this is the Mac vs. PC ads where both brands have market awareness (equality). You are leveraging a very well known brand (David) to build your own.

“If you listen to my songs, you’ll see I don’t sound like David Usher.”

If you feel like you don’t sound like David, then were you lying in your ads? Your tagline for the ad states otherwise.

“This is no different than an opening act playing before a more popular headliner and selling their CD’s and merchandise to the headliner’s audience.”

This is exactly why what you did was unethical. Opening acts get PERMISSION to do so - they are invited (again, permission) by the headliner to take part in the show. They have an agreement with the headliner. It is done so both parties can benefit from the opportunity. A more apt comparison would be that what you did was like setting up your own merch table next to David’s at a concert (that you were not performing at) - without his permission - and trying to shill your wares.

Do I like the chutzpah of what you did? Yes.

Do I think that in the spirit of what David is about and how much he is sharing with his community, that you could have taken five extra seconds to send David an email and ask if he would be ok if you used his name to draw attention to your music? Yes.

Daniel, noone says to you “stop it!” still, so you’re free to continue! But how Mitch Joel said above, it wasn’t a hard thing to contact David.
People do strange things to self-promote sometimes. You want a big break overnight using such trick. It’s naive.
All what I like in this story is a piece of experiment.
Maybe the comparison wasn’t perfect, but if you get the idea, you feel.
For example, you aren’t musician, you produce excellent laptops, you decide to promote the deal and say: ‘Hey everyone! Do you like Apple? So maybe you’ll check my site?’
The only difference is loyalty.

There’s nothing wrong with this from a legal or ethical perspective.

http://techdirt.com/articles/20080613/0235121401.shtml

I still see a few problems… personally, it strikes me as a little pretentious on Daniel’s part as a knee-jerk reaction, but I haven’t listened to his music yet. (I actually saw the ad, but just as I was loading another page so I wasn’t able to read it.) But judging from the reaction in the comments, it seems people have been pretty receptive after listening.

Another problem is David’s request for Daniel to stop. I think it’s misguided and there’s certainly no legal argument, but I’d imagine Daniel would prefer to have a healthy relationship with David rather than a strained one.

David: what’s wrong with being mentioned in an ad? You said, “im my music life im really specific about how i use my name and brand, and almost all artist feel the same way” - do you really expect to have control over every time someone mentions your name?

Suggestion: a Facebook ad can still be targeted in the same way (anyone with “David Usher” in their favourite music) without explicitly mentioning the name in the text of the ad. That might not catch people’s attention in the same way, but if David doesn’t feel comfortable (though he has no reason to feel uncomfortable), it might be a good compromise.

It does not surprise me that Daniel has an education in Marketing since he stoops to such lows in his ads and creates music that is soulless, heartless and devoid of any passion.
Do not compare yourself to David Usher please. He is an amazing musician.
You should just get a job with Nissan and write songs about their minivans.

Because of my respect for David, I will stop the ad campaign immediately at his request (even though I’m not sure why he feels threatened by it). I really didn’t expect all this backlash for a simple facebook ad.
It’s unfortunate but at the same time has been an interesting debate.

I also appreciate the positive comments I’ve gotten ! David thanks for blogging about this and being cool about it

Mitch, as you know there are no written rules about these things, and sometimes, especially in new media like facebook, everyone has a different opinion of what’s considered ethical or not. This is not the same as billboard advertising. It’s not like we are multimillion dollar corporations either, we’re just musicians…I’m surprised this was taken so seriously in the first place.

I understand the points that have been made, however I still don’t feel that I need another artist’s permission to use their name when comparing my music to theirs. I’ll still keep telling people “if you like Coldplay, you might like my music” without feeling obliged to call Coldplay’s management and ask them for permission. Am I pretentious or unethical for thinking this way ?

And Jim Thomas, was that really called for ? What about Mitch Joel, he’s the president of an important advertising agency. Do you think he’s soulless too simply because he’s a marketer ? Your comment speaks to everyone here about your personality.

Like it or not each band is a brand and needs to be treated as such (no matter how much money/fame or lack there of). Brands live and die by the association consumers (fans) make in their mind concerning that name. Making a direct association between bands it creates an association that neither artist ultimately has control over. Legalities aside, most people don’t know them and some may assume that if Daniel is allowed to use David’s name perhaps David is endorsing his work/brand.

@ Daniel you may not want to be directly connected to other bands yourself. What if a band you had mentioned suddenly took up a hardcore drug addition, started getting arrested for heinous acts and generally treating their fans like crap (just an example, no reflection on David LOL)? At that point simply removing your ad mentioning them is too late because people have already made a subconscious connection with you and that band. It’s sad to admit but consumers make most of their purchasing decisions based on subconscious impressions. We take in millions of bits of information a day and process and store it without much thought at all. How we feel about a product or band is largely based on this, our conscious thought is secondary.

I would recommend that you don’t advertise using any band’s name. It’s far safer for the press and reviewers to make connections for you because then people see it as their opinion instead of holding you personally accountable. In the meantime I think with a slightly different ad the FB advertising is a great idea, but I’d consider using people who have the keyword “Goo Goo Dolls” listed in their favourite music as the criteria. They have way more FB fans and you’ve probably already gotten the attention of most of David’s though the ad and this blog discussion.

P.S. sorry for writing a book

Elizabeth Louise, thank you so much for the insightful and rich comment ! You know what ? I think I’m starting to understand the point here. Brand associations can be tricky and there is a bit of a “grey area” in what’s considered acceptable.

This was intended as an experiment, and I can say that I have learned a lot from this and hope it can be beneficial to other people/artists.

This is insane. No one has absolute control over a brand, no one deserves absolute control over a brand and it’s not unethical in the least.

@Elizabeth: if it’s okay for a reviewer to make an association between brands, why isn’t it okay for Daniel? It’s not unethical to sound pretentious. Plus, if the association is false, it won’t stick.

@Daniel: I agree with you. You don’t owe Coldplay’s management any phone calls. By pretentious, I only meant that it’s a pretty bold comparison to make. I think the judgment should ultimately be made based on your music though (which I’m listening to now ). If your music were terrible (which it’s not!), it would be very pretentious to compare yourself to an established and well respected musician. It seemed pretentious at first, only because I hadn’t heard your music. Pretentious, courageous… the final judgment delayed until after a listen. You certainly don’t need permission, especially not to simply target the keyword!

@blaise
actually daniel and i have been chatting on facebook and he asked if i would rather he stop.
also the reason im uncomfortable is because someone is using my name to advertise their product. i would feel the same if it was coke. and targeting a keyword is different than using the keyword in your ad. maybe you can do it legally but its not going to make you any friends when you need an opening slot or an agent.

Looking at Mitch Joel’s first comment and as a musician myself, I would have to agree, I don’t think comparing yourself to others is the way to build your own brand.

“Oh yeah, Daniel Ghattas, he’s the guy who says he sounds like David Usher.”

Just doesn’t really do much for building your own reputation.

Reading through some of the other comments, there are a lot of people who seem to really appreciate recommendations made by various software programs or critics and there is something to be said for that.

I think the problem with an artist making these types of comparisons is that it can really damage their reputation. What if I DO like David Usher, come over to check out Daniel and DON’T like what I hear? If I was referred by a piece of software, no harm done, I blame the software and move on. However if I was told by the artist that I would like him because I like David Usher, now I blame him personally. Then I tell other people how I feel… Bad Press!

David, thanks for showing everyone that I’m not the big bad wolf !

I understand your point a bit better now. Although I’m not really in music to get an agent, or necessarily sell millions of records. It’s just something I do because I love it, whether I end up making a career out of it or not.

There’s something I’ve been thinking about:
How would you feel if a band/artist made a cover song video of one of your songs, put it on youtube and used it as a way to get people interested in their own songs ?

Look up “David Usher cover” on youtube to understand my point.

As anyone knows, this is a common practice on youtube and the original artist never gets asked permission for the rights to cover their song, nor do they receive performance royalites.

What’s your take on it David ?

I think the idea is definately good, although I don’t think personally that I would use ‘Name Dropping’ in my add. I would think of something else that was catchy, attention grabbing, descriptive yet short and to the point (I know that probably sounds impossible to accomplish)

The fact he used your name is balsy and I agree with Mitch here, displaying a lack of ethics and respect.

The idea IS good though I think in that he found a way to target a specific audience. I think the Facebook social ads are a great way to reach a specific audience. After all, why waste money advertising to a broad audience where only 5-10% may check you out? When you target a more specific audience, those figures could go up to as much as a 50-80% response.

I would just like to make it clear to everyone that if I had known that this could be perceived as a lack of respect or unethical, I would have not done it. It never even crossed my mind that it could be perceived as balsy or as risky. I just figured that people would pay more attention to an ad that speaks directly to their musical tastes than a general one.

I’ve seen a lot of these types of ads on FB. Seems they are following what Amazon and other websites do with their Recommend feature. Is this different i.e. worse?

This is one of the most interesting discussions I’ve seen about Social Media in a long time! Whew!

This underlines the enduring point about SM, that it is a very new frontier and that it is all a learning process, as far how things may be perceived. We are learning everyday what is cool and what is not.

The grey areas are becoming less grey and are getting more sharply defined all the time. Amazing to watch!

There were a lot of lessons learned, I think, by this ad. From the original poster to the referenced artist and beyond.

It certainly makes for interesting discussion. Cheers!

i had to stop reading…

but a question, would you prefer me to stop advertizing on myspace as well? I put the songs up i like, my favorites are on my top 40, I promote the shit out of my favorites on radio. Maybe i should just take it all off and say I like unspecified music. In a sense I am telling the world my love and influences, so what’s the diff? And, is your song actually in the New Batman movie? Was permission granted? Look at the amount of hits you got.

This is just getting too anal and harsh..but I am not a doormat either.

I’m surprised at David Usher’s reaction, sounds pretentious to me. I still like his music but that’s just not a cool way to act. How is it okay for his fans to use his name in promoting him but not for an artist to use it in promoting themselves. It’s a double standard.

As a huge music fan who’s always looking for new artists’ music to explore, I was happy to find out about Daniel’s music through a facebook ad. It is a social networking site after all, and how better to network than targeting music fans directly. It’s always a users choice whether or not to click on the ad, and there are applications you can add which block the ads as well. The targeted ads do have a bit of a “Big Brother” feel to them, like how does facebook know that I need to lose weight? I don’t recall writing that in my profile, but then again, facebook users should be aware that anything they post to their profile can and probably will be used for marketing or other purposes. If you’re looking for privacy and anonymity, then why are you on a social networking site?

As for the specifics of using David Usher’s name, I understand the controversy, but at the same time, his name is not trademarked or copyrighted(as far as I know) and he is also not the only one being targeted. I’ve seen similar ads for O.A.R. (do you like Daughtry? Dave Matthews Band? etc.) If I’m intrigued, I’ll click, if I don’t like how the band sounds, I’ll move on to the next thing. If I do enjoy the new music, I’ll become a fan and spread the word. I don’t see how that’s harming the original band/artist.

I’ve been a fan of Moist and David Usher since 1992. I’m certainly not going to become less of a fan just because I happen to like what I’ve heard of Daniel Ghattas so far. And if I didn’t like what I had heard, I would not have associated it with David Usher, since I know that he had nothing to do with the ad.

I hope the two of you (Daniel and David) are able to work this out between you. And maybe if all goes well, Daniel can open up for David at a show or two…you never know…maybe some good can come out this controversy!

Canadian music rocks!

@Laina
wow, very soap opera
daniel and i dont have anything to work out:)
when i saw his ad i emailed him and told him i was going to post about it and asked him to be part of the discussion. cloudid is about creativity and social media. this is a place to talk about ideas. 45 comments is good conversation and community!

@Janet

Even though I don’t fully agree with David, I’m impressed by his reaction. Many others would run for the lawyers. He’s been extremely cool about it.

@David
targeting a keyword is different than using the keyword in your ad. maybe you can do it legally but its not going to make you any friends when you need an opening slot or an agent.

Ok, I agree with you more here. Using your name in the ad is different from simply using it to target ads. But I still don’t think there’s anything fundamentally unethical about the ad. I do agree with you though, as I stated originally, that the ad is problematic if you’re not entirely comfortable with it. That’s completely subjective though, because I know others who’d be very comfortable with this sort of thing.

It’s not unethical, but it’s not a great idea if the artist in question doesn’t appreciate it or if the music doesn’t live up to the ad.

I’ve read all the comments on here. I would just like to say that Daniel contacted me through Myspace since I have David as a friend on my page. Asked me if I would listen to his music.

I’m sure that Daniel thinks that all is fair in the music business, but ethically speaking you really don’t want to ride on David’s success because that isn’t fair. David’s worked hard and deserves a lot more respect.

If Daniel’s music is really as good as he says it is, then it will hold the test of time. David is a success because of he’s a great song writer plain and simple. From Moist to his solo career…he is where he is today because of hard work, dedication and amazing song writing.

That’s my 2 cents from an American! =)

Wow, I must be the only person who doesn’t even pay attention to any of the ads on Facebook….David Usher is the only artist I have listed on Facebook but I don’t recall seeing the ad….mind you I can’t recall seeing any ads because I completely ignore them.

I’m glad people are passionate about this topic and I agree that cloudid is a great place for people to discuss creativity and social media, but I don’t believe people should blatantly trash talk about other people. Opinions should be able to be expressed without attacking specific people in such a harsh manner. Of course the majority of people who have commented on this topic have been absolutely civil, but then there are those that seem to think we are all back in junior high….I bet David and Daniel both never thought this whole thing would blow up this big.

I have to say that I agree with Stormy on the Batman thing…David did you get permission to advertise the Batman/Kill the Lights mash up on youtube? It makes you look like you are trying to gain recognition by using a super popular movie attached to your music and then making it seem ok by stating that you are a huge Batman fan..

I am not against marketing Daniel. I’m against young people who create music for the mass market and whose sole purpose is fame and fortune. Do this through something else than music please. We already have enough watered down elevator music. Stop doing market studies on what musicians sell cds and who you can attach yourself to for better exposure. If you are going to play music, play from your heart. I don’t think that it is illegal to put up the ad that you did, but it is pretty unethical.

People can be mean spirited. Anyone insinuating that Daniel is trying to ride on David’s success clearly has no knowledge of how the music industry functions or respect for new artists who are trying to make it in a very difficult environment.
I applaud Daniel for doing something smart and out of the box. And I listened to his music and it’s pretty darn good, definitely something I would buy ! If it were crap, I would understand David not wanting to be associated with it. But in this case, the ad worked, Daniel got us all talking about him and listening to his music. The fact that Daniel stopped the ad and is responding to everyone including David with respect shows us that he is anything but disrespectful.

“Although I’m not really in music to get an agent, or necessarily sell millions of records. It’s just something I do because I love it, whether I end up making a career out of it or not.” Comment From Daniel Ghattas — July 17, 2008 @ 4:39 pm

Just a thought for Jim Thomas in case he wants to make false assumptions about people he doesn’t know.

Since I have started reading this entry I have refreshed the page 3 times and each time there are more and more comments to read.
First of all I saw the ad and did not click on it. I only actually was interested in listening to Daniels music because of such a fuss about the ad here.
I really enjoyed reading all of this, it sparked a lot of different feelings from so many people.
I find it interesting how people are defining this ad posting as unethical. I think if you want to get into philosophy here that is just a whole different ball park. Everyone has their own set of morals and ethics. Nobody would admit to their own values being wrong, what would be the point in establishing them in the first place. It is like saying your religion is the right religion. Keeping an open mind to different ideas is the key to being able to look at something from more then one point of view and getting the most out of something.
I’m really interested in reading more comments from everyone.
@Daniel I think that your comments thus far are responsible and mature. I personally didn’t think of it as a comparison of yourself to David but I think I took it how it was intended. I like most of the other artists mentioned as well, I think it was a good experiment if anything… look at this comment list…

wow…I was going to read all the comments, as it just gets so much more interesting, but I do have to say my attention span isn’t that long, only a few minutes (which I found out is rather normal for humans…and I thought my baby’s attention span of a couple of minutes was short..but I guess that’s just how every human, old or young work…but I digress..so).

Anyway, as a David Usher long time fan from the Moist days, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with using this ad by Daniel Ghattas. I remember seeing something like it on MySpace, and checked out your site and the music, and decided, it’s cool but it’s not David Usher, and I have pretty high standards of music because I compare every rock n roll or pop music to David Usher. As a fan, I could decide for myself what music I’ll listen to or not. Though it’s not right up my alley, if you come around this part of my town (San Francisco), I might probably cross that bridge I live across, and come to see you perform, just because I’ve heard of your name, and know that you’re David Usher’s fan, and heard your music briefly and know it’s good. And all this because you put up that ad. Otherwise I would’ve not heard of you, or even if you did show up somewhere, I wouldn’t have taken notice, because I didn’t associate you with David Usher. So ad-wise, I think it helped. I’m more of a live show kind of gal, so I won’t go around buying a CD unless I hear the band in person (or unless it’s a compilation CD of some exotic music, for which I can go to shows for). I know it is hard as a musician, albeit a new up and coming one at that, to promote oneself.

But David does have a point there. I think an ad just draws attention these days. What really will make the target audience stay, of course, is what you have to offer. And you have talents there, and you just have to really make that talent come out strong and uniquely yours to your target audience. When I went to your site, I wasn’t sure what was uniquely yours. I heard good music, but I wasn’t sure what about it scream out “This is Daniel Ghattas!!!!!” because I went in there looking for “David Usher”. When I didn’t hear or see a “David Usher” sound, I left. But now, if there was something there that highlight your personality and artistic voice, I would’ve stayed to check it out further, even though it wasn’t “David Usher”. Of course, now that I’ve read this whole discussion here, I’ll probably end up going back to your site to check it out anyways, just because I’m curious now to see…what does he have to offer that’s HIM which I have perhaps been not on the alert to take note at first glance.

Anyway, forgive my long-winded words (I’m a writer and I’ve suddenly just found my writer voice again after a period of writer’s block), but basically what I’m saying is….the ad campaign works great in drawing attention, but the important part now is to make that attention stay with showcasing what’s really “YOU” come out like Vegas neon signs AT FIRST GLANCE because otherwise the audience will turn away when they realize they weren’t getting what they expected (David Usher).

There’s something to be said about a point Daniel made.
Why is it okay for a successful artist like David Usher to have put in hard work over the years and used other band’s fan bases in building his career but it’s not okay for a new artist like Daniel Ghattas ? Isn’t this hypocritical !

And why is it okay for David Usher to use the Batman movie to promote his new single on youtube but it’s not okay for Daniel to use David Usher’s name on a facebook ad that’s probably going to bring him much less attention ?

To me it seems like this the case of the little guy trying his best in a world of big guys, and he has found a smart way to expose his music.

I think Daniel’s move was balsy!
Would I have done the same marketing strategy? probably not!

@Daniel: Saying that you sound like DU can ad way too much pressure than you need. and I know you said “If you listen to my songs, you’ll see I don’t sound like David Usher”, but your ad states otherwise.

Music websites have “If you love____, than check out_____” all the time!
but if the artists themselves say that, it comes off sounding a bit pompous and arrogant.

and as you can tell from some of the posts, some fans seem to think so too.

First: Thank you stormy for liking my song! I’m really happy you did!

Second:
I don’t think it is unethical or immoral to post those ads.

I do however, think it is ineffective and a bad idea.

I hate facebook ads! I am no longer listed as single on facebook because I am so sick of seeing dating service ads. And I can understand that a band advertises on facebook, that’s ok. But I think what we’ve learnt from the 55 comments, is that a significant percentage of fans of David Usher don’t like the idea of seeing a facebook ad “like David Usher?” I remember People in Planes advertised the hell out of my page. Now when I hear the band “People in Planes” I think, oh it’s those douchebags that have been spamming me for the last three weeks.

Think about it this way. At this point every single David Usher facebook fan knows who you are! I know this because I’ve seen your ad like 50 times. Maybe 1 percent of those have become fans of you, but probably at least 50% think you’re annoying! Is that what you want?

And one of the most useful things that I learnt from this blog is, promote yourself how you want to be discovered.

How do I discover bands? Last FM, Youtube, myspace trolling.

Will I ever become a fan of a band because they put a facebook ad! No! Will anyone here?

Will I ever become a fan of a band because they spam me on myspace or youtube! NO WAY!

Keep in mind Dan, I have no ill will towards you. I don’t think you’re a bad guy or anything. I have toyed with the idea of Facebook ads many times, and I probably will for my free show August 9th at Much Music (That’s right baby, Much Music), but just keep in mind it’s a double edged sword.

All the best, don’t take this as hate, but constructive criticism on a marketing campaign.

Rafe

While perhaps a professional courtesy email to you may have been helpful, it seems to be building just as much buzz for you as it has for him.

Wow, this is fascinating! It’s interesting to read how passionate everyone is to their points. I have a few more nuggets to add to the discussion. In the entertainment industry everyone new and upcoming is compared to someone else. You always hear “the next Brad Pitt” or what have you. So I can see how easily the lines get blurred when trying to position yourself in a heavily crowded market, especially in the music industry and even more so when you are starting out from nothing. The internet has opened up a whole new blurry world of what you can do. Ethics seem to virtually disappear as there is no governing body overseeing what one says or projects online in this regard. If our friend had taken out an ad in Chart mag with the headline “Love David Usher?” there would be a very different set of rules to abide by. Online, I’m not sure those same rules apply. It’s a tricky argument - I can fully understand Daniel’s point - he is not saying he is to be directly compared to David. He has taken a technicality approach. If he had the words “Love David Usher then you will love me too” then he has given a very clear comparison. In fact one could argue further that he has not even said “Love David Usher’s music?” he only asked if we love David himself. We all assume he is referring to his music. It’s not a strong argument I know, but one to add to the pot. It’s as vague really as asking “Do you love dinner by candlelight?” and that can still have a musical pairing. You can see where this can go…

Does anyone remember the line “Tired of being compared to damn Britney Spears” from Pink’s song “Don’t Let Me Get Me?

I think the bottom line is…some artists just don’t like it when they are used in comparison to other artists..

Rafe, remember, you’re speaking for yourself and what works for you as an artist. There’s nothing wrong with having different opinions on what effective marketing is or isn’t. But didn’t you just spam this comment section with your youtube video ? Yet you hate spam ? And where are you pulling these numbers from ?

I don’t waste time on people who aren’t interested in what I have to offer. I only focus on the ones who appreciate what I do, and treat them with respect and warmth. It seems that the majority of people here (including David Usher) liked my music and didn’t seem to think I was that far off by asking “Love David Usher? If so, you might like my music”. So far I’ve made a few new fans from this. 30 or so new fans may not seem like a lot to you, but to me it’s a big deal, because I’m in a position where every single fan counts and should be treated like gold. I’m just trying to sell my homemade CDs in which I’ve put in a lot of hard work and passion and hopefully I’ll break-even in the end.

If some people feel offended by my audacity to aim high and have…dare I say…self-confidence (not cockiness) in my music, I’m sorry you feel that way. To everyone who has actually made an effort to understand my point, thank you ! So far, I can’t complain that the campaign and this blog haven’t been effective in showcasing my music and getting lots of attention from David’s fans to his own blog. In a way this has been beneficial for both of us (although clearly more for me, but that’s a choice David made when decided to post it).

David, I hope you don’t get mad at me for asking (I am a huge fan) but I have a question re: brand association.

I was curious about the Kill the Lights/Batman Dark Knight mashup video (which is awesome by the way!). Did you ask permission from the Batman producers to use their footage? Technically you are associating yourself with their brand.
I believe Daniel did the same thing (he was a fan of yours)and associated with your brand.

Sorry to play the devil’s advocate.

To Daniel:

I must admit your ad did work. I am a huge David Usher fan, and I’m always interested in discovering new artisits. I listened to your song and it was very good. Definitely very different from David but good. Best of luck to you. I know how the music business can be very difficult. I tried myself years ago, but had to give it up and work the 9 to 5.

What the heck ?!? Why would he need permission to use David Usher’s name ? He’s not selling David Usher music, he’s just saying that his music can be appreciated by David Usher’s fans.

“but its not going to make you any friends when you need an opening slot or an agent.” Who does David Usher think he is ? What kind of maffioso attitude is that? He can lose fans by acting like a diva. I checked out Daniel Ghattas website, his music is okay but not my style, but this is making me root for him. He shouldn’t have stopped the ad, the kid is being too nice.

@Hannah & other people questioning the Kill the Lights/Batman video:

David didn’t make the Kill The Lights/Batman mashup video.
I’m not sure if this counts as anything to you, but it does to me.
It’s pretty much a fan made video (I believe). Which, in my eyes, is ok.
David did advertise it a bit, but I don’t think he said “hey, look at the video I made”

People make videos of movies mixed with their favorite songs, and tribute videos all the time without the artists consent.
and I don’t think anything can be/should be done about it. it’s all in good fun.
on David’s forum I even suggested he get in touch with the directer to see if he can have his music featured in the next Batman movie!

@Danny
firstly, i didnt say he had to get my permission, he asked me on facebook if i would rather he not use my name in his advertising.
secondly i said
“as you develop your career you often need these artists to open for, to help develop your crowd. most of them wont find it to be an interesting topic for their social media blog.
its has really sparked some good conversation!”
i think the fact that im holding the conversation on my blog pretty much show that im more interested in the conversation than the ad itself. if i had it in for daniel i wouldnt be helping to promote him here with all this chat, i would have just emailed facebook to try to have the ad taken down:)

Bryan,

I agree with you. I love the Kill the Lights/Batman video, and I agree it’s all in good fun. If it were up to me, it would be in the next Batman movie since it seems to fit the mood of the movie!

The only point I was trying to make, is that I don’t think that it is a wrong for a musician to merely associate themselves with another one. New artists are constantly compared to more established ones. I don’t think that an ad that says “Love David Usher?”, takes away from the David Usher “brand” at all. In fact, guess what I listened to shortly after reading that Daniel ad? David Usher!

ps
tomorrow im going to post about batman, mashups, covers and ads.
it deserves its own post/thread so lets save that one for tomorrow:)

I’m impressed with both David and Daniel’s mature reactions. They seem to be both level headed and equally talented artists. I downloaded Daniel’s single and it’s really growing on me. Mitch Joel and some other people here were way too harsh on Daniel. It seems as though they had an axe to grind by assuming that his music might not be of equal value to David Usher’s. As far as I can tell, I wouldn’t surprised to hear their songs side by side on the radio. Daniel you have a new fan, and David I can’t wait to buy your new album.

Hannah,

I don’t think it’s wrong either.
I do, however, think it sounds a bit arrogant to say “Love David Usher? then you’ll like my music” (or whatever the ad actually says).
It got me to look up his music on Myspace though, so did his marketing strategy work? for me it did.

but yea, I know where Daniel’s coming from. He’s a DU fan and he wants to tap into the DU fanbase a bit.
hey, maybe after all this he’ll get to open for Mr.Usher himself?

Controversy is good, it gets people talking…. and listening!

As a music fan I appreciate these style of ads. In the past few months I’ve had a few appear on my profile and generally the music is both fairly good and approximately similar to the targeted artist. It’s a fairly efficient way to discover new music!

From an economic standpoint (I was taught by a certain professor in a beautiful city on Lake Ontario ;)) it makes sense: the cost of FB ads combined with the breadth of the network provides an incentive for the artist advertising to target a similar sounding artist, especially ones that, while known, are less mainstream.

Looking at Hannah’s comment above it appears that Daniel did okay with his targeting.

I agree with Marjorie that Mitch Joel’s tone was slightly arrogant. Some of the other idiotic comments (thankfully there were only a few) were also completely uncalled for and vicious. Seeing people gang up like that on someone who is barely defending himself isn’t cool. Daniel’s just trying to find a way to reach people. No need to chastise him, he seems pretty honest and decent judging from his responses here and by the fact that he stopped the ad.

I don’t agree with people insinuating that Daniel is arrogant to say that his music would be enjoyed by David Usher’s fans. What is he supposed to say, that his music sucks ? is he supposed to just sit around and wait for people to magically discover him ? God forbid a Canadian artist with promise actually shows self-confidence in himself. And judging by Daniel’s music, he’s right on target. The music is great, it sounds professional, he has a beautiful voice and it fights right there on top40 radio. I wouldn’t be surprised if his single “What You Do” became a hit. This is no amateur basement band. His claim is accurate, the music isn’t that far off from what many David Usher fans (including myself) listen to.

I’m just wondering what David Usher thinks of Daniel’s music and if he thinks this is the type of music that many of his fans would enjoy ? Was Daniel’s ad message right ?

Ha, ya. I’m a spammer too I guess.

Pretty bad.

At this point I guess what we’ve learned is that if one promotes in this way they are going to inspire strong feelings both for and against. Maybe it’s just the over polite Canadian in me, but I would think the moral is ask the artist’s permission then go forward at your own risk. Extra respect to David for posting the discussion while knowing Daniel would get some publicity from it and to Daniel for being brave enough to join in even knowing not everyone is routing for him. Can’t wait till tomorrow to hear on the other issues.

On a side note - wow, this is and awesome discussion. Thanks to all who are participating, I am loving the passion. Actually this is the type of discussion I’ve been waiting to see since CouldiD began. I come from an advertising background and you can’t study this stuff. The issues are all too new and these grey areas and peoples reactions and perceptions of them are very interesting. Thank you.

Reading through all these comments leaves me feeling uneasy. I’m a fan of david usher since the days of moist but i am disappointed by the hypocrisy and jealousy i see here. It’s too bad daniel got some of the comments he did for doing something that any kid with a business sense and half a brain would have done. He doesn’t seem like the bad guy here…what i see is a fat cat being greedy: do what i say not what i do or did in the past to get to where i am today.

I have the feeling this could only happen in canada, where we are so insecure about ourselves that we constantly feel we need permission to take any sort of initiative. People in the USA would have probably told him go for it, good for you for being smart enough to recognize a great oppportunity.

@David Elkind - if i’m reading this right - you’re calling david a greedy fat cat riddled with jealousy and hypocrisy. i may not be reading it right, but if i am, i’d like to remind you (and everyone else) that david’s blog post itself reads :

“Lots of you emailed me saying “what the hell, can he do this?”. I think he can. I’ve emailed Daniel to see how the campaign worked for him.”

doesn’t sound to me like hypocrisy, jealousy or any other the other strong allegations being made. to me it sounds like someone interested in the process. it’s about exploring this new frontier - not about fear or insecurity.

While the ad didnt really reel me in (besides being an interesting tactic), I love the conversation. I am impressed at how Daniel and David have handled themselves in the face of some pretty scathing criticism. It is a new world with new boundaries being determined. And the lively conversation (when done respectfully, as it was in most cases) is fascinating to me! Looking forward to tomorrow’s blog too. Maybe that one will hit 100 comments!

Message for David Usher:

Let me tell you bro, I used to be a huge fan, but after hearing you actually made Daniel Ghattas remove his ad, because it had your puny little name. I lost a HUGE amount of respect for you..it was just lame, and egocentric. I never thought you’d be like that, lame.

Message for Jim Thomas: honey, get an education instead of insulting people who actually have one. Daniel seems to know a lot more about marketing than you, so i’ll give 5 bucks, buy yourself a life. Same goes for Mitchy boy (you need to be reeducated)

Wow, I decided to check this one last time today and was stunned by some of the stuff I was reading.

This is getting totally off topic. Let’s refrain from insulting people here please.

David did not make me remove his ad, I asked him to let me know if he felt uncomfortable about it and he told me he thought it was best if I didn’t use his name in it, so I stopped. Clearly he has no ill-will towards me if he’s posting this on his blog and joining in on the discussion. David has every right to want to retain control over his brand name.

Immature comments and personal attacks do not have their place here.

David - thanks for initiating a fabulous dialogue. I saw you speak at NXNE with Mitch and I thank both of you for not only the information you shared there, but for the valuable lessons that you both continue to share through your blogs. This dialogue represents what we need to consider as we all become “marketers” using media in new ways.
To add my opinion to the above, I’d like to say the following. I manage an artist who has been influenced by Blue Rodeo and Crowded House but I would feel very uncomfortable using their names in an ad. Reviewers ofetn compare his sound to those artists and others. While we quote and attribute those comments in press releases and on his website, we would never use other artists names in an ad. It is one thing for Chapters or other online sellers to make the suggestion “if you like Blue Rodeo, consider …” but another entirely for the artist to do it themself unless they seek permission.
In the very old days of law there was something known as “passing off”. Specifically, where you named your restaurant like another one or used the same decor - in hopes of confusing the customer. While this is not the same - having David’s name on the ad could be construed that same way.
Just an opinion.

Daniel, from reading your comments, I can see how you might strike a comparison with David Usher. Both of you really responded quite professionally and authentically to the feedback you got here.

Sometimes we have to remind ourselves, there is this person, a person, behind the art (be it music, paintings, poetry etc.) and I think where there is a fan base, there is a serious faith in the person behind the art, not just the art itself. And I think you’ve shown that there is that something in you a fan can really believe in. And that the music you create and sing comes from your heart, because you are that honest.

I think it’s wonderful that you could create music the way you wanted to, inspired by those that came before you, and be able to exchange with both those you wish to inspire and those that inspired you. Not everyone gets to that space, but you did.

And I think it’s great that David supports the arts and growing musicians by posting this blog. A discussion is always a process.

80 comments ! Haven’t seen such a passionate debate here in a while.

andrea, although her comments are excessive, and a few other people have a point. Mitch Joel is out of line and comes off as arrogant in his wording. I respect Mr. Usher’s opinions but there’s a bit of inconsistency in him saying “what the hell, can he do this?”. I think he can” and then changing his mind about the ad. Not to mention him avoiding responses about pursuing other artists who have covered his songs on youtube as well as using the batman movie to promote himself. Either way, I think it shows that no one has any real answers and that everyone seems to have a different opinion on what is ethical. But having to ask an artist to use their name in a facebook ad is just plain absurd. Cut the guy some slack, he’s an unknown singer, he won’t have the amount of success Mr. Usher has any time soon.

I have a question.

Where are the 83 of you on all the other blogs! Just read, no comment! C’mon, show some commitment people.

@andrea
if your going to comment, please read the whole thread, dont just skim.

and i often wonder why some people feel like they have to be so aggressive in when they post.

People seem so fast to jump to conclusions about someone’s personality and intentions. Online people can be a bold and mean as they want, there aren’t so many consequences when it comes to saying your opinion to people who can’t see you or spend time with you.
To answer the initial question “What do you think?”
I think the ad worked enough to gain a few fans. I also think people look at the intentions of Daniel way too deeply. Presuming to know what is right and wrong in advertising ones self.
I’m sure this must have blown up to be a topic way bigger than expected. I am also wondering where all of these people are when it comes to commenting on other blogs. Maybe it has to do with both David and Daniel taking part in the conversation.
I think is is just all very interesting. I have no reason to promote myself online for anything, I don’t really have anything much to offer people here, but it made me wonder how I would go about advertising myself if the need were to arise. It seems like it would be a difficult task, so why not try something you think might work? If it works then great, if not then hey… just another chance to try something new. I’m wondering what is next for advertising Daniel?

With David Usher’s songs in mind, I downloaded Daniel Ghattas’s song and listened to the others. I liked what I heard - good solid music having a beauty of its own. With all the buzz now, this young man can stand tall and need not be subjected to humiliation and patronizing to get some acknowledgment.
Yet, the discussion on this blog has revealed some Shakespearian characters. Here is what each of them would have in mind.

Character 1: David Usher
How dare he! Staging himself at the same level as me? How arrogant! Doesn’t he know that I am the divine David Usher, with absolute rights over my fans?
I need to teach him a good lesson, get him off my name, but I don’t want to look ugly before my fans. He should be depicted as the transgressor. My involvement in the Kill the Lights/Batman’s Dark Night video should be considered beyond the standards of ethics I advocate.
My friend Mitch has an approach of his own: some distortion of facts, some indignation, then some intimidation and arm twisting. I’ll let him take care of the dirty job.
Let’s open a discussion under the banner of a good civilized exchange of views.

Character 2: Mitch Joel
How dare you! Equating your name with the divine David Usher brand and reaping some benefit out of that? How arrogant! Committing that sin and saying that you don’t sound like David? What a liar!
Not asking for permission? How unethical! Mentioning the example of opening acts? Don’t even think about it!

Character 3: Daniel Ghattas
To be a musician, or not to be! That is the question.These accusations are unfair. I am not a transgressor. Yet, I need to be very diplomatic in my reactions. Let’s not forget my goal: gain new fans, show them what a decent guy I am. So, adopt the underdog attitude (after all, we Canadians are good at that, aren’t we?), try to buy peace, show my respect to the divine godfather and remove his name from the ad.
So, I’m sorry everybody! Please don’t be angry with me!

To sum it up, lecturing people about ethics and how to engage in non aggressive discussions while indulging, in the mean time, in a subtle dismantling of a young musician’s initiative doesn’t help to enhance credibility.
The music industry remains what it has always been: a jungle. And it needs more than soul searching to set things right.

This topic was sent to me by my friend (she works in marketing) and I do have to say that I used to be a Moist fan back in the day.
Seems to me like David is just trying to show everyone that he’s nice, he’s just listening to Mitch whom he trusts because the way he feels about Daniel’s ad evolves through the conversation. Although Mitch has a point about ethics, I’m not sure it applies to musicians as they are people not companies. What may apply in the world of business does not necessarily apply to a music ad on facebook. That was going a bit too far and asking too much of Daniel in my opinion. I’m glad Daniel kept his cool (I don’t know if I would have been able to lol), although I don’t think he had to ask David if he should remove the ad. That was a bit over the top and unnecessary.

I used to play music with Daniel, and since the beginning I recall David Usher was always a great inspiration to him, mostly musically but also later on on how he and his band were managing their ‘business’. For my birthday, in 2001, he bought me the Indie Band Bible, which was written by Mark Makoway (Moist former lead guitarist). The book basically gives tips to emerging bands and artists on how to succeed and get yourself out there. Really well written by the way, even if it’s a bit outdated now with MySpace, Facebook, etc…

Funny thing, on page 53 in the upper right corner, there is a quote saying:

“Good press and bas press are the same thing. The only bad press is an obituary.”

And quote is signed Mitch Joel…

I guess Daniel took him at his word!

Good luck with your music Daniel, great debate… I wont pronounce myself on this!

I caught wind of this today from a colleague who worked with Daniel a year ago and who happens to be David Usher/Moist fan. She freaked when she saw it and was very disappointed. The hypocrisy and ignorance behind comments saying that David Usher has worked a long time and earned his success and that Daniel Ghattas is somehow trying to ride on his success simply by promoting himself to David’s fanbase is incredible !! This happens every day to other artists yet you don’t see them complaining about it.

Every artist has to start at the bottom. David says he did crazy postering in his Moist days. Why is he allowed to do “unethical” things and Daniel isn’t ? Not to mention David wasn’t able to answer to the Batman/Kill The Lights issue. He’s using the same so-called unethical principle as Daniel to compare his associate his name to a bigger name, yet when Daniel tries it he gets crap for it. Incredible.

This double-standard strikes me as quite arrogant and sad.

What we have here isn’t a debate on ethics; rather it is the assumption by a small group of people that the rules in which they strongly believe have more validity than those of others. Daniel Ghattas’ comments indicate a good head on his shoulders and an innate business sense. Questioning his ethics or his pursuit of a Masters’s degree in the field of marketing (not a bad idea) was unfair to say the least. As I witness on a daily basis, not all business hotshots have learned the skills of tact and human sensibility.

In this internet age, brand owners must accept that they do not have total control over their brand names. This is a very specific case, as someone pointed out earlier, because most new music today is cross-promoted on the net without the target artists’ permission. This is the first I’ve heard of the idea that someone should contact a band/artist in order to get approval to market themselves to their fan-base; and having worked at major labels and as a songwriter/producer, I’m no stranger to this industry. How many times have we received myspace friend requests from up and coming musicians using established artists’ names as part of their message.

Daniel certainly is not the first one to do this, it has been going on for years; he is just the first one to be publicly patronized for it by a few people.

I’m glad to see that, in the end, common sense won out. The majority of people who commented this blog realized that there was nothing unethical or disrespectful about the ad or Daniel’s intentions, and that in fact, it proved to be clever, accurate and effective. Points go out to David Usher for blogging about it.

I think Daniel made more fans from this blog than the actual ad!
and David knew it was going to get some attention for Daniel.

great marketing guys!!

Wow! I go away on vacation and come home to this! This is the longest blog yet. I’m tired and I want to go to bed…but the excitement…the drama…yikes. Both David and Daniel are a little bit right and a little bit wrong…let’s just leave it at that and move on!

P.s. @David
Heard “Kill The Lights” coming off the vampire ride at La Ronde in Montreal on Friday. It was raining…and I was bummed that some of the rides weren’t working…but your song cheered me up. I was more high from the song than I was from the ride I think!