i agree that people need to stand up for their beliefs and aggression is not the answer. logic and ethics are important. sometimes people can’t face the logic and will attack others to distract from their own lack of solid facts. name calling is reserved for the weak and the guilty who have been caught. i think Jon Stewart is often right lol
people need to keep it clean and logical because that’s why we debate…to find out the truth…not who is right or wrong. Passion all the way but not aggression which is the backlash of oppression. I believe in freedom of expression without depression.

We should never use email/Blogs to resolve a conflict. There’s a reason why only 7% of all communication is the words - body language, tone, timber, etc… all play a major factor in getting a message across.

My comments yesterday were from a business/marketing perspective (how we do things in my business world) and yet some people perceived them as arrogant. I don’t mind the critique, but everything that was said - both positive and negative - was being read by how that individual person “felt” about the issue and not, necessarily, with the spirit in which it was written.

This is what happens, and I think it’s pretty cool. We all got to read the three sides (plus) of every story.

That being said, taking things to the level of insults and aggression does nothing but highlight those individuals for who they really are.

I had the pleasure of having my own/private FB conversation with Daniel. We’re going to stay connected and I’m sure we’ll grab a coffee sometime soon.

Great debate should spark new friendships and relationships, not enemies, animosity and rudeness.

Passion is a Statement of Who You are. Aggression is violent and hurtful. More people need to passionate and less agressive and this world would be a better place.

Interesting topic David and a logical follow-up to the very passionate debate on the last post.
I agree with Mitch that email and blogs are not the place to resolve a conflict because of the absence of the other elements of communication. I would like to raise the point that I think we do need to learn how to effectively resolve conflict in the absence of the elements that Mitch mentions. This method of communication is a reality. We communicate through email. And we often have to resolve business issues through email. Picking up the phone is a great option but it is not always available. Can we learn a new way of “communicating” the elements that we are used to reading from the other person?

The agression comes from our animalistic need for blood/conflict that is inevitably part of humankind. Add that to the anonymity and lack of accountability of the Internet and the differing emotional states of participants and you get a sometimes volatile mixture.
Passion turns to agression when people start focusing on the “who” instead of the “what” and transpose negative situations or emotions of their personal lives onto the debate.
I think the key to having a rich debate that moves forward is to remain objective and check your ego at the door, with hopes that people on all sides come out of it having learned something. And to take the time to read what was said previously.

I think you’re right.
There’s no need to turn a discussion into a yelling match..one can get his/her point accross without yelling..we aren’t children..everyone can have their say in a civilized manner.
It just takes one to become aware of the situation to kindly point it out (if things are getting out of hand)…although at times inflated egos are often bruised.
In conclusion, I suppose if we learn to leave our egos at the door…then a passionate discussion should be fun…but it doesn’t always work out that way…

Yeah, it was really hot!
I’m just happy that we do not live in the century of duels, otherwise would be a lot of blood.
The line is there as always. In the heads.

I think aggression comes a lot from close-mindedness. I think a lot of people get aggressive when they feel the need to make people believe what they believe. I find that not enough people take into account that you may not believe what they do.
I think it is interesting the picture you chose for this blog. I think hockey is a prime example of passion for a sport turning into aggression for reasons beyond my comprehension.
Everyone has their own lines between passion and aggression. I guess just a need to defend, which isn’t always necessary.
Daniel says “The aggression comes from our animalistic need for blood/conflict that is inevitably part of humankind.” I think this statement is very true of a lot of people, having that animalistic need for blood/conflict, but what I really don’t understand is that it still exists today. I personally avoid conflict or any sort of confrontation. And I certainly avoid blood… So why with all the knowledge humankind has today is there that instinctive need to be (or be perceived to be) more powerful or more right than others?
I think passion needs a bigger place in society. I also think that more and more we instinctively feel the need for compassion and to help. I still don’t think it is nearly balanced enough for people to engage in a heated passionate debate without some sort of aggression. It sneaks its way in.

Amanda, I’m kind of like you, I always try to avoid conflict and make friends out of my enemies. On a few occasions I’ve gotten slack for not being aggressive or defensive enough, but that’s because sometimes swallowing your pride and not adding fuel to the fire is the most effective way to tame a situation and even turn it to your advantage, no matter how unfair or difficult it may seem.

Although as humans we have evolved, I believe this need for aggression is simply part of our biology and never truly disappears. Think of fight/flight responses or survival instincts, they won’t go away any time soon. I also guess it comes out more easily in certain personality types than others. Wars, bar fights, psychological and physical violence still exist today, but there’s something to be said of the violence of aggression taking on a new form on blogs, chat rooms or message boards. It’s still the same frustration.

We live in a society in which it is often implied that we need to keep tight control over everything : our weight, our money, our status, our reputation. I have the feeling that many people are walking around with built up anger caused by stress with no way to release it. The internet, where they are anonymous and are not physically in front of the person who they’re talking to, becomes the ideal place. They probably wouldn’t say half those things in front of the other person.

While I understand it can be hard to real oneself in when passionate about something I think it’s important to take a deep breath and be thoughtful before contributing. First I don’t feel people “listen” or absorb information objectively when angry (example being all of the skimming going on in yesterday’s blog). In addition, aggression and personal attacks are just about the least effective way to get your opinion across. People are naturally repelled or become defensive when faced with the aggression of others and it often causes them to discredit another’s opinion before they’ve even heard it. I feel the most effective way to communicate is to attempt to help others think about the issue (whether they agree or not).

It’s important to remember that when one raises their voice the natural human reaction is to become defensive and block them out, but if one lowers their voice the natural reaction is to pay closer attention.

i am sensing a digression but that’s probably good, life goes on as it should.

i holler when things go into unsafe ground, on here and on the internet…:)

or if I grab something prickly…

when there is friction things move either backwards or forward depending on which way you decide to push.

anyhow,
great topic

I’ll add more later on a more thought based response rather than an emotional one…cheers!

I wish more people would discuss, debate, and argue in “real life” like they do on CloudiD!

I encounter people who resort to name calling, and “fighting stances” on a daily basis just because they can’t handle someone who has different opinions than themselves. It’s quite sickening actually.

Such as today, this guy came up to me and was talking about how God loves you, and everybody goes to heaven. Even bad people go to heaven, just not right away. And i said “really, that’s cool that you believe that, but I don’t really believe in God”
so he said “WHAT!?, I can’t believe you! you’re just so stupid, but God loves you and you will go to heaven” then he walked away.

Why not love everybody, nomatter what they believe, what their opinions are, or what they look like?

Aggression comes from a conflict of interest. In this case, there was an implied attack on Daniel’s musical integrity which he is very passionate about. At the same time, fans of David Usher have there own points of view and are potentially annoyed by these facebook ads.

When someone is given what can be construed as a personal attack they can get defensive, and it is important not to get defensive.

For example, when someone was like to me “you are spamming also” that is a chance for me to get defensive, perhaps make an attack on someone else, and escalate the conflict.

Instead I was like “ha, I guess I do spam.”

Not being defensive, not getting angry.

ha, I hope I am not coming off as preachy. i am just interested in psychology and this was something I learned.

I don’t know will it appear here or not, but this topic has inspired me to make the poster I’d like to share here

Or this link:

@Svetlana : i don’t see it ;(

I think in terms of aggression, online you have two types of aggressors: the ones who are on edge and ready to fight about anything, anytime… and the ones who would never be so confrontational in “real” life, but feel safe behind the anonymity of this. Just fire and run. Sometimes, I think people forget theyre arguing with real, live human beings. (Would you fling these same insults face to face?)

As we get more and more consumed by the internet, I think its easy for our sense of reality to become distorted. We need to make a more intentional effort to be kind and thoughtful in ALL our interactions, online or otherwise….

I believe passion can turn to agression when someone or some people, such as in yesterday’s case, attack a person’s core values without knowing said person. In the previous blog certain comments, initiated by a particular comment very early on in the conversation, used words and insinuations about someone’s values, code of ethics and education without knowing him; and all ended up being proven completely and surprisingly wrong. Many of the participants were quick to point out what was going on, although some resorted to unnecessary aggressiveness which made things worse. It’s a vicious circle the line between passion and agression can be very fine.

Twisting words and ideas while hiding behind the pretense of debating principles gets us nowhere.
The key is for people to take the time to re-read what they write, and ask themselves if what they are saying is fair and clear, or biased, before hitting the submit button.

To Sabrina aka angelinfire: I do not see either
It has become too transparent

Sometimes when people are assertive and stand up for what they believe in it is called aggressive.

Sometimes when people lose their silence and raise their voice it is considered aggressive.

Sometimes when people call you on inconsistancies and hypocrisy you are called aggressive.

Sometimes when people “trunk you” it is considered aggressive.

I am a blank slate theorist and that aggression is a man made trait. We learn it from our environments and that people are born without that tendancy. Anyhow, when does passion turn to aggression. It would need to start with a definition of the two as you and I may have very different perception on what is aggression. Look at the hockey picture, I think it is violence that should be punishable by law. Most people think it is “part of the sport”. I am a strong believer that aggression is probably an unnecessary trait, but condoned so much in society. The more it is condoned, the more we are desensitized, the more we become it, the more unaware of it becoming us. It is like being in an abusive relationship and the Stockholm Syndrome, there is safety in remaining close to your capture. Maybe there is safety being close to your aggression as well. Can I as a non-violent activist, working in a zero tolerance field be aggressive? You mess with certain aspects of my life, and yup, i sure can be. I am human that way. I have been accused of being aggressive when working with an addict, and she did specifically say aggressive. She was right, i was aggressively trying to help her to save her life.
I am a very shy quiet person. I really am. But I fight with passion, and for my believes and loves with aggression. Why lie about it eh….

When people get out the bullhorn I consider that aggressive

Hmmm? Maybe I’ll get on my bullhorn for a minute with a poem that was inspired by all this aggression! LOL. Except it’s meant to be passive

“I’d understand if I was there
so I may misinterpret a bit or two.
Forget that I am late
and missed it by an inch
but let me try to resonate
a thing or two with you.

Now, now.
Scared are you protectors
of those with different points of view?

Value…
What is value?
Another’s creativity piled upon the steps…
waiting to be noticed in another shade or hue?

Speak up now young starlet.
But remember to tread carefully
for some may never invite you to their ball.

Be bold.
Be kind.
Beware…
but never be all
to everyone!

Someday you may drown in your own sun…
your own light…
if you can catch a ray from one who shines most
bright.”

I like it

@Daniel
Thanks. Creativity can be hit or miss but you’ll never know until you try. The value begins with the intent. It may go askew at times..as we all know…so be prepared without losing that spontaneity.

@David
Thanks for inspiring each and every day

A few things come to mind…

“It’s easier to be an asshole to words than to people,” says xkcd.
Eternal September
flamewar

I always attach my name to my comments for a reason. I find it holds me somewhat accountable.